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drunk24 @ 06:32 am: Sober24
Sober24 is a community for people who are struggling with alcohol and drug issues, or maybe you aren't, maybe you've decided that you are okay just the way you are and you are going to get on with your life and don't feel a need to "fix" it anymore. You DON'T have to belong to a 12 step program to fit in here, in fact we welcome a diverse view on recovery/drunken options.
We welcome ALL views and welcome all people, including people who choose abstinence, controlled drinking/drug use, people who have been hurt in 12 step programs, people who have thrived in 12 step programs and anyone who has tried anything to make their lives better.
Feel free to duke it out here, no matter what your views are, hate AA? go for it baby!
Love AA? believe that Bill Wilson is a prophet? bring it on!


Date:July 22nd, 2004 08:21 am (UTC)
I think Mr. Agent Orange is a very closed-minded man. Hiding behind a mask of a fictitious name. He was also required by the courts to attend AA, which made him hateful. I don't blame him. You can't get sober for anyone but yourself. If you don't want it, you won't get it. I am here by choice. I have 4 years of recovery through use of the 12 steps of AA. I have had periods of sobriety without. I am much happier with. I would never force my opinions on anyone, but I do believe the program works if you work it.
Date:February 4th, 2008 10:11 am (UTC)


Steppers are continually captivated by their past memories (drinking stories) & are fascinated with the dead & unchanging image of what it was like for them as practicing alcoholics.

Why do, STEPPERS, attend meetings? So they can hear the other Bill & Bob clones talk about the past & stay in the land of the dead. 12 Step programs are the greatest horror story, because the Steppers have been so indoctrinated -- they aren't aware they are lifeless robots. They can do nothing to save themselves while they continue to attend 12 Step meetings.

I have had a mutation of the mind (METANOIA) -- through the saving grace of Jesus Christ. Salvation is always the ending of the mind's fascinated identification with the dead & unchanging image of what it was". It is the complete reversal of the "natural" order of things, a METANOIA -- the Greek word for repentance, meaning precisely a turning-around of the mind, so that it no longer faces into the past, the land of the shadow of death, but into the Eternal Present.

So long as the mind is captivated by memory, and really feels itself to be that past image -- which is "I", it can do nothing to save itself; its sacrifices are of no avail, & its law gives no life".

Buchman, Wilson & Smith have done an excellent job; Wilson talked to "dead people" & if you too want to talk to DEAD PEOPLE [ZOMBIES], attend an AA meeting.
Date:February 4th, 2008 02:51 pm (UTC)

Re: AA

Actually, in step 3 we turn our lives and our will over to the care of God as we understand him. God is running the show after that point. AA speaker meetings are full of people who talk about the past, because that is what helps the new person decide if they belong there. Those who decide they are powerless over alcohol and that their lives are unmanageable do the REAL work behind closed doors with their sponsor.
The DEAD PEOPLE are those who continue living in the problem. Those who aren't looking for a solution. Those who will not surrender to their own powerlessness. Those who are alcoholic and continue to drink or those who get sober and drink again and continue that vicious cycle again and again.
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
Date:February 4th, 2008 08:28 pm (UTC)

Re: AA

If you give your will to a "higher power", how could you have the will to continue to control your will?

An if you don't have the will to control your will, & can't control your will any longer, then how could you continue to place your will in the care of your "higher power"?

What's to stop you from accidentally "taking your will back" without meaning to do so?
Date:February 5th, 2008 04:30 am (UTC)



I imagine 12 Step recovery programs are a slow slide into the jaws of Satan. I was involved with this evil “satanic cult” [AA] for over 30 years, but was saved through the SAVING GRACE of our LORD & SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST. He directed me to a therapist who was into “real” recovery, not the mind destroying, soul destroying, cult, which is AA.

I have met two Steppers recently & I imagine they are completely devoid of any emotion or insight. I feel pain because both these men are decent human beings, but AA has destroyed their BRAIN STRUCTURE & they have no idea how to relate, apart from expounding AA propaganda.

I imagine Hell to be a continuous flow of AA meetings without any light at the end of the tunnel, because one never recovers. I beg you STEPPERS who are in 12 Step programs, to get out before it is too late.

How does one recover when one is handing one’s power over to Satan (AA). The 12 Steps were written out of Wilson’s head, he certainly didn’t get his guidance from the Bible. I imagine he was an agent of Satan & he & Smith’s “cult religion” has filled millions of Steppers with their anti - Christ propaganda.

Step Three of AA is "Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him." While many in the Oxford Group placed their faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, there was much leeway given. Shoemaker, a leader of the Oxford Group, says, "The true meaning of faith is self-surrender to God." He further explains:

Surrender to whatever you know about Him, or believe must be the truth about Him. Surrender to Him, if necessary, in total ignorance of Him. Far more important that you touch Him than that you understand Him at first. Put yourself in His hands.

Whatever He is, as William James said, He is more ideal than we are. Make the leap. Give yourself to Him. Aside from capitalizing the "H," which Christians do to refer to the God of the Bible, "Him" could refer to any god of one’s own making [BEDPAN]?
Date:January 10th, 2008 09:33 am (UTC)

Somehow I don't see hate in his site, just a lot of facts.

You see hate? Hmmm....if you spot it, you got it?
Date:February 3rd, 2008 09:11 pm (UTC)



Nowhere in the 12 steps does it say that you should quit drinking, or help anyone else to quit drinking, either. Nowhere do the words SOBRIETY, RECOVERY, ABSTINENCE, HEALTH, HAPPINESS, JOY, & LOVE appear in the 12 Steps.

The word ‘alcohol’ is only used once, when it was PATCHED into the 1st Step for the word “sin.” But Wilson wrote “ We are powerless over ‘alcohol’… Oxford Group Slogan; “We are powerless over sin & have been defeated by it.

MICKY - http://micky-clontarf.blogspot.com/

Date:January 22nd, 2009 06:21 pm (UTC)


I know this is ahead of schedule but I woke up this afternoon to find a very disheartening phone message. S24 has banned Don (irondd) as a result of the vicious sexual attacks and lies spread by PAULIEE and TRACY!! Pauliee tried to lure Don in with a sexual performance via webcam. Nice behavior for a "married lady"...doncha think???? When Don rebuffed her advances and tried to keep the contact conversations recovery based, she tried to do herself in with an overdose. What lovely attention seeking behavior by a non-medicated mentally ill person!!

Don was one of the first people (second only to Alfee) who welcomed me as a friend at S24 back in 2004. Don subsequently replaced my then sponsor who was dying with cancer. Don and I have spent countless hours on the phone discussing recovery and life in general. What they have accused Don of doing and being is such a blatant vicious lie. At 36 years sober, Don's driving passion is still to help the hopeless and show them that there is a way out of the hell called addiction.

How interesting that Foxy's fingers are all over this.....just like they were when Dawn and her ilk tried to take down Pop C. And Sue....the big ole bear......keep wagging that self-righteous finger of yours and somebody is going to bite it off one of these days. YOU are one of the biggest promoters of lies and false accusations against people that you feel to be a threat to your little queendom. And Terry Luv.....counselor extraordinaire who runs around claiming to know more about recovery than anybody else has a ringside seat and a hand in all of the bullshit criminality. What a nice little gang of self-righteous, twisted lying thugs......FOXY.....DOC.....TERRYLUV.....SUE.....PAULIEE.....TRACY...DAWN.....PARROTHEAD. And Mudka dear.....your name was mentioned too. Care to comment?????

You all should hang your heads in shame!!! Don Has never done a damn thing to harm anyone and you all know it. Maybe the problem is that NONE of you like hearing the dirty truth about yourselves. Don McGuire believes in one simple thing......carrying the message to the still suffering alkie/addict. he shares his experience.....warts and all......openly and honestly with anyone wanting to change.

And you all say Don needs professional help???? Turn your fucking mirrors around and take a good hard look at the liars, cons, and cheats staring back at you.

One last thing.......your lies and twisted sick games resulted in Don receiving e-mails from all over the place calling him things like "baby fucker". Did ya think about that kind of fallout when you started your sick little game??? Oh no....I doubt that you did. You all are far to self interested in keeping your heads up each other's asses and patting yourselves on the back for all the FINE recovery you have. What you have is not recovery.....far from it. Just a pitiful group of wannabes led by the queen wannabe and you'll destroy whoever tries to stop your lying games.

And little Miss Pauliee.....want to show us your webcam? Want to put on a show for us like you wanted to put on for Don?? Think your husband would like that?? He could watch! I'll bring the chips and sodas!

Hey Dawn.....want to show us your boobies?? You know.....the ones you spread around the net?? We could share those with your hubby.

What about you Foxy....wanna watch, too?? Sounds like it might be right up your alley.

Doc.....I'm speechless. I thought you were a better person than this. But you are right dead center of all of the lies and false accusations. Maybe you'll be next on their little hit list. What goes around comes around.

Sue.....get a fucking life. You live on-line and are the only person I've met who has purported to be everything in this life. I think it is you who should seek professional help.....ASAP!! And your chubby little fingers are always all over everything that is dirty and deceitful.

That's about it for now. My heart is crushed. You all have tried to completely and utterly destroy one of the nicest and finest people I know with your sick, twisted games. My hope is that Guideposts pulls the rugh right out from under you and we can watch you all spin down the sewer drain.....and land right where you belong......in a big, smelly pile of shit!

Date:November 3rd, 2009 01:11 pm (UTC)


S24 is chukfull of them. Greg, were he still alive, would be amazed and disappointed at how his project has turned into what it currentky is-a personality driven clique of wanna be's.

Where to place the blame? Why not start with those in nominal 'control' of the daily functioning of the site-the 'Moderators' themselves. Cliche spouting, favorite playing rule shifters-when they make an appearance that is.

Then you have endless posts, go to a meeting, got to a meeting today, read da big book, keep coming back, no doubt helpful to some, but really, that's support?

Combine that with those gifted few who can manage to string a slew of slogans and cliches together in a single paragragh-without any thoughts of their own. Season with the pontificators (hello Jeff, good to see you Neo, hey, where's Patsy of late?) and you have the unwholesome that S24 has become.

If I were Guideposts I would drop my sponsor ship. If I were AA I would blush at how 'da sainted program' is exposed on a daily basis as oh so much BullShit. Happy, joyius and free? Not that coven of geese.

My advice, visit but don't gobble up what they are serving.
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